Suit flood and Deco

Martin Burnard · December 17th, 2006, 08:48 PM

Was at Chepstow NDAC on Thursday with my regular Buddy. He got a full suit flood with 24 minutes of Deco to go, water temp was 6 degrees!

When we got out he looked like a Smurf on a tumble dryer (blue and shaking well)!

In true buddy support style I sent him to get the coffee as the exercise would warm him up.

So what would everybody else do.

The dive was 25 minutes at 45m. We had used V-planner with conservative factor of 3, 2 minutes addded at gas switch (21m using 50%), and had put in 3 minutes at 24m for our relaxed sending up of DSMB.

Now we could have cut the deco shorter, but he was cold ... which could require longer deco, so we left it as planned. It was his call as to when he felt too cold.

Thoughts from the gathered intellect welcome.

GLOC · December 17th, 2006, 09:20 PM

Thanks for posting this Martin. When did the flood happen? 25 mins into a 25 min bottom time or whilst on deco? What was the cause of the flood?

Having dived today and yesterday at Vobster, and noticed that there isn't much a thermocline in the upper area, but there is one in the area of 15-18m of a good 5 degrees.

Based on the assumption that you were at the end of the dive, that profile lends itself to a 25 min deco time split 12 below 6m (3 @ 21, 2 @ 18, 2 @ 15, 3 @ 12 & 9) and 8 @6m with 6 to the surface. I would have done as much as I could stand but I would have moved up the column as far as possible, reducing the lower portions in the 18, 15 & 12 moving the numbers to the 6m stop for a couple of reasons; firstly the water will be slightly warmer than it is in the bottom section and secondly if I need to get straight to the surface, it is closer!!

Data · December 18th, 2006, 12:35 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Martin Burnard)

In true buddy support style I sent him to get the coffee as the exercise would warm him up.

when I read this I fell backwards of my chair and spilled the coke all over the keyboard, you SIR, now owe me a new keyboard.

Ahmed Adly, Marlin Inn DC · December 18th, 2006, 11:55 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Martin Burnard)

Was at Chepstow NDAC on Thursday with my regular Buddy. He got a full suit flood with 24 minutes of Deco to go, water temp was 6 degrees!

When we got out he looked like a Smurf on a tumble dryer (blue and shaking well)!

In true buddy support style I sent him to get the coffee as the exercise would warm him up.

So what would everybody else do.

The dive was 25 minutes at 45m. We had used V-planner with conservative factor of 3, 2 minutes addded at gas switch (21m using 50%), and had put in 3 minutes at 24m for our relaxed sending up of DSMB.

Now we could have cut the deco shorter, but he was cold ... which could require longer deco, so we left it as planned. It was his call as to when he felt too cold.

Thoughts from the gathered intellect welcome.

First of all, I would like to acknowledge, that you guys ahve got it real tough over there. Here in Egypt, the w temp is 19c @ 100 meters in mid winter!

What I understand is that the cold is not very good for deompression adn I think your buddy is very lucky that he got out of it OK (I assume he is). So on that note, was he using thinsulate? that is supposed to carry good thermal properties.
So when a person is really cold, deco is supposed to become ineffective. In some cases, it is better to cut deco as short as you have to cut it and get out. Once hypothermia sets in, it could be that no amount of deco will help what will happen once you are out.
Generally, you guys had a real life threatening situation and, yet again, |i shudder at some of the stories I hear on this board and am astonished at the dedication to diving it must take to dive in waters that cold.

tell me, how much deco did you have planned, and how much had you done when this catastrophy happened? Also, what depth where you at?

Martin Burnard · December 18th, 2006, 01:31 PM

We were at the end of our bottom time, and it was a wrist seal, seal (ie the bond) that went.

He wasn't wearing a thinsulate, it was a lofting type material (like a weazel). Hence not the best for warmth when wet!

The surface temp was a toasty 10 degrees.

His view is now, that is the max time he would want to do. He was very cold, but not quite a Captain Birdseye (frozen for those who don't get it).

Good learning curve.

JAG · December 18th, 2006, 01:47 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Martin Burnard)

The dive was 25 minutes at 45m. We had used V-planner with conservative factor of 3, 2 minutes addded at gas switch (21m using 50%), and had put in 3 minutes at 24m for our relaxed sending up of DSMB.

Does VPlanner allow you to add a deep stop? (I'm currently at work so can't check) If so, could you let me know whereabouts this is please? If not, weren't your run times then out?

Thanks,

Ian

Mark Powell · December 18th, 2006, 03:53 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by JAG)

Does VPlanner allow you to add a deep stop? (I'm currently at work so can't check) If so, could you let me know whereabouts this is please? If not, weren't your run times then out?

Thanks,

Ian

You can put in a multiple levels, so you can say 25 mins at 45m and then 3 mins at 24m. Just put in two segments and then tick both segments.

Ahmed Adly, Marlin Inn DC · December 18th, 2006, 05:14 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Martin Burnard)

We were at the end of our bottom time, and it was a wrist seal, seal (ie the bond) that went.

He wasn't wearing a thinsulate, it was a lofting type material (like a weazel). Hence not the best for warmth when wet!

The surface temp was a toasty 10 degrees.

His view is now, that is the max time he would want to do. He was very cold, but not quite a Captain Birdseye (frozen for those who don't get it).

Good learning curve.

Dude, that is the type of learning curve that busts out of your graph, hits you over the head and starts teaching everyone else

What would be cool would be to know how much deco was actually shaven, due to the cold. But good to know that some one can escape such a scenario

Mark Chase · December 18th, 2006, 08:47 PM

I flooded my suit due to a hole you could stick a finger in on a 70m dive. I was in 10c water. I was very very impressed at how warm i was in my DUI 400g Thinsulate. It definitely has the best wet thermal quality of any under suit i have owned.

Last time I did it was years ago on a 50m dive using a cheep 200g thinsulate and i froze my tits off.

My attitude to this situation is get shallow fast and minimize deco then get out ASAP.

I doubt if it will have much support on here but shallow water is warmer and the deco is faster.

ATB

Mark Chase

**Alastair** · December 18th, 2006, 09:13 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

I flooded my suit due to a hole you could stick a finger in on a 70m dive. I was in 10c water. I was very very impressed at how warm i was in my DUI 400g Thinsulate. It definitely has the best wet thermal quality of any under suit i have owned.

Last time I did it was years ago on a 50m dive using a cheep 200g thinsulate and i froze my tits off.

My attitude to this situation is get shallow fast and minimize deco then get out ASAP.

I doubt if it will have much support on here but shallow water is warmer and the deco is faster.

ATB

Mark Chase

I can't believe I'm going to say this but I agree with Mark Chase about deco in this case

I'd try and keep the deco short and get to shallower water if I knew it was warmer. I might then tack a bit of extra time on at 6m depending on how cold I was. If you are totally freezing you are unlikely to be off-gassing very well anyway.

I did read on YD of someone had a drysuit flood after a 115m (I think) dive in the UK and did as much deco as he could but ended up with DCS. Not a pleasant situation.

Cheers
Al

December 17th, 2006, 08:48 PM	#1 (permalink)
Martin Burnard(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Plymouth, UK Posts: 580	Suit flood and Deco Was at Chepstow NDAC on Thursday with my regular Buddy. He got a full suit flood with 24 minutes of Deco to go, water temp was 6 degrees! When we got out he looked like a Smurf on a tumble dryer (blue and shaking well)! In true buddy support style I sent him to get the coffee as the exercise would warm him up. So what would everybody else do. The dive was 25 minutes at 45m. We had used V-planner with conservative factor of 3, 2 minutes addded at gas switch (21m using 50%), and had put in 3 minutes at 24m for our relaxed sending up of DSMB. Now we could have cut the deco shorter, but he was cold ... which could require longer deco, so we left it as planned. It was his call as to when he felt too cold. Thoughts from the gathered intellect welcome. __________________ I once enjoyed a sado-masachistic frenzy of total tintintabulation leading to a state of metampsychosis... or did I make that up? www.bananafrogcars.co.uk Last edited by Martin Burnard; December 17th, 2006 at 08:54 PM.

December 17th, 2006, 09:20 PM	#2 (permalink)
GLOC (Online) Moderator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Fleet, Hants Posts: 1,950	Thanks for posting this Martin. When did the flood happen? 25 mins into a 25 min bottom time or whilst on deco? What was the cause of the flood? Having dived today and yesterday at Vobster, and noticed that there isn't much a thermocline in the upper area, but there is one in the area of 15-18m of a good 5 degrees. Based on the assumption that you were at the end of the dive, that profile lends itself to a 25 min deco time split 12 below 6m (3 @ 21, 2 @ 18, 2 @ 15, 3 @ 12 & 9) and 8 @6m with 6 to the surface. I would have done as much as I could stand but I would have moved up the column as far as possible, reducing the lower portions in the 18, 15 & 12 moving the numbers to the 6m stop for a couple of reasons; firstly the water will be slightly warmer than it is in the bottom section and secondly if I need to get straight to the surface, it is closer!! __________________ Gareth Images of Life Photography DIR Team Foxturd Travels Underwater and Further Afar If you don't have the time to do something right, where are you going to find the time to fix it? - Stephen King

December 18th, 2006, 11:55 AM	#4 (permalink)
Ahmed Adly, Marlin Inn DC(Offline) New Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: hurghada Posts: 849	Quote: (Originally Posted by Martin Burnard) Was at Chepstow NDAC on Thursday with my regular Buddy. He got a full suit flood with 24 minutes of Deco to go, water temp was 6 degrees! When we got out he looked like a Smurf on a tumble dryer (blue and shaking well)! In true buddy support style I sent him to get the coffee as the exercise would warm him up. So what would everybody else do. The dive was 25 minutes at 45m. We had used V-planner with conservative factor of 3, 2 minutes addded at gas switch (21m using 50%), and had put in 3 minutes at 24m for our relaxed sending up of DSMB. Now we could have cut the deco shorter, but he was cold ... which could require longer deco, so we left it as planned. It was his call as to when he felt too cold. Thoughts from the gathered intellect welcome. First of all, I would like to acknowledge, that you guys ahve got it real tough over there. Here in Egypt, the w temp is 19c @ 100 meters in mid winter! What I understand is that the cold is not very good for deompression adn I think your buddy is very lucky that he got out of it OK (I assume he is). So on that note, was he using thinsulate? that is supposed to carry good thermal properties. So when a person is really cold, deco is supposed to become ineffective. In some cases, it is better to cut deco as short as you have to cut it and get out. Once hypothermia sets in, it could be that no amount of deco will help what will happen once you are out. Generally, you guys had a real life threatening situation and, yet again, \|i shudder at some of the stories I hear on this board and am astonished at the dedication to diving it must take to dive in waters that cold. tell me, how much deco did you have planned, and how much had you done when this catastrophy happened? Also, what depth where you at? __________________ It has just dawned on me.... We are all just recycled stardust Ahmed Adly, www.deepvoyage.com

December 18th, 2006, 01:31 PM	#5 (permalink)
Martin Burnard(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Plymouth, UK Posts: 580	We were at the end of our bottom time, and it was a wrist seal, seal (ie the bond) that went. He wasn't wearing a thinsulate, it was a lofting type material (like a weazel). Hence not the best for warmth when wet! The surface temp was a toasty 10 degrees. His view is now, that is the max time he would want to do. He was very cold, but not quite a Captain Birdseye (frozen for those who don't get it). Good learning curve. __________________ I once enjoyed a sado-masachistic frenzy of total tintintabulation leading to a state of metampsychosis... or did I make that up? www.bananafrogcars.co.uk

December 18th, 2006, 01:47 PM	#6 (permalink)
JAG(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Essex Posts: 130	Quote: (Originally Posted by Martin Burnard) The dive was 25 minutes at 45m. We had used V-planner with conservative factor of 3, 2 minutes addded at gas switch (21m using 50%), and had put in 3 minutes at 24m for our relaxed sending up of DSMB. Does VPlanner allow you to add a deep stop? (I'm currently at work so can't check) If so, could you let me know whereabouts this is please? If not, weren't your run times then out? Thanks, Ian __________________ -.. .. ...- . / ... .- ..-. . / ... .... .. .--. -- .- - . ... www.narknark.co.uk

December 18th, 2006, 12:35 AM	#3 (permalink)
Data(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: South Florida Posts: 143	Quote: (Originally Posted by Martin Burnard) In true buddy support style I sent him to get the coffee as the exercise would warm him up. when I read this I fell backwards of my chair and spilled the coke all over the keyboard, you SIR, now owe me a new keyboard.

December 18th, 2006, 03:53 PM	#7 (permalink)
Mark Powell(Offline) New Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Guildford Posts: 49	Quote: (Originally Posted by JAG) Does VPlanner allow you to add a deep stop? (I'm currently at work so can't check) If so, could you let me know whereabouts this is please? If not, weren't your run times then out? Thanks, Ian You can put in a multiple levels, so you can say 25 mins at 45m and then 3 mins at 24m. Just put in two segments and then tick both segments. __________________ Mark Powell Dive-Tech: Technical Diver Training http://www.dive-tech.co.uk Visit the online technical diving shop: Analox, Fourth Element, Halcyon and Apeks

December 18th, 2006, 05:14 PM	#8 (permalink)
Ahmed Adly, Marlin Inn DC(Offline) New Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: hurghada Posts: 849	Quote: (Originally Posted by Martin Burnard) We were at the end of our bottom time, and it was a wrist seal, seal (ie the bond) that went. He wasn't wearing a thinsulate, it was a lofting type material (like a weazel). Hence not the best for warmth when wet! The surface temp was a toasty 10 degrees. His view is now, that is the max time he would want to do. He was very cold, but not quite a Captain Birdseye (frozen for those who don't get it). Good learning curve. Dude, that is the type of learning curve that busts out of your graph, hits you over the head and starts teaching everyone else What would be cool would be to know how much deco was actually shaven, due to the cold. But good to know that some one can escape such a scenario __________________ It has just dawned on me.... We are all just recycled stardust Ahmed Adly, www.deepvoyage.com

December 18th, 2006, 08:47 PM	#9 (permalink)
Mark Chase(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Kent England Posts: 905	I flooded my suit due to a hole you could stick a finger in on a 70m dive. I was in 10c water. I was very very impressed at how warm i was in my DUI 400g Thinsulate. It definitely has the best wet thermal quality of any under suit i have owned. Last time I did it was years ago on a 50m dive using a cheep 200g thinsulate and i froze my tits off. My attitude to this situation is get shallow fast and minimize deco then get out ASAP. I doubt if it will have much support on here but shallow water is warmer and the deco is faster. ATB Mark Chase __________________ The only DIR Inspiration diver in the village

December 18th, 2006, 09:13 PM	#10 (permalink)
Alastair(Offline) DIRX Supporter Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: UK Posts: 693	Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase) I flooded my suit due to a hole you could stick a finger in on a 70m dive. I was in 10c water. I was very very impressed at how warm i was in my DUI 400g Thinsulate. It definitely has the best wet thermal quality of any under suit i have owned. Last time I did it was years ago on a 50m dive using a cheep 200g thinsulate and i froze my tits off. My attitude to this situation is get shallow fast and minimize deco then get out ASAP. I doubt if it will have much support on here but shallow water is warmer and the deco is faster. ATB Mark Chase I can't believe I'm going to say this but I agree with Mark Chase about deco in this case I'd try and keep the deco short and get to shallower water if I knew it was warmer. I might then tack a bit of extra time on at 6m depending on how cold I was. If you are totally freezing you are unlikely to be off-gassing very well anyway. I did read on YD of someone had a drysuit flood after a 115m (I think) dive in the UK and did as much deco as he could but ended up with DCS. Not a pleasant situation. Cheers Al __________________ Helium is our friend - GI3