Missed deco stops?

floater · December 14th, 2006, 04:34 PM

Just curious what people here do, especially those with GUE tech training, if you were ever to miss deco stops because of some problem?

For example, say you miss the deep stops and gain control around 21m. Would you go back down and do them, or just spend more time at 21m? And why?

What if you pop all the way to the surface, say missing 30 minutes of deco? I assume you'd go back but how much deco would you do and where would you start relative to the original schedule?

What if you just overshoot one stop?

As for me (and I'm just talking about 50m / 30 min BT dives max, give or take) I'd go back to the first missed stop, spend maybe 3-5 minutes there, and then come back up per original schedule, but extra carefully and maybe spend a few extra minutes at the shallow stops for good measure. (I forgot what the ANDI procedure was for missed stops and I sold my text book so can't look it up).

limeyx · December 14th, 2006, 06:20 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by floater)

Just curious what people here do, especially those with GUE tech training, if you were ever to miss deco stops because of some problem?

For example, say you miss the deep stops and gain control around 21m. Would you go back down and do them, or just spend more time at 21m? And why?

What if you pop all the way to the surface, say missing 30 minutes of deco? I assume you'd go back but how much deco would you do and where would you start relative to the original schedule?

What if you just overshoot one stop?

As for me (and I'm just talking about 50m / 30 min BT dives max, give or take) I'd go back to the first missed stop, spend maybe 3-5 minutes there, and then come back up per original schedule, but extra carefully and maybe spend a few extra minutes at the shallow stops for good measure. (I forgot what the ANDI procedure was for missed stops and I sold my text book so can't look it up).

I think that's a huge broad subject, and going to spark a "lively" debate :0

For a tech1 dive, if somehow I miss all my deep stops at say 100,90,80 feet but somehow magically manage to regain control at 70 feet (or say I acidentally blew through rock bottom and decided to skip the deep stops)

There is no way in heck I am going back down to do them! As far as I am concerned at the T1 level of diving they are essentially "optimizing" the deco and the risk of going back down to do them is unreasonable.

I might do an extra minute at 70 feet and then either not do a second dive, or do a more conservative dive on the next one.

I think there are a million answers for the rest of your question.

Ahmed Adly, Marlin Inn DC · December 15th, 2006, 03:11 PM

With a depth like 50 meters and short bottom times like that, I suppose that you could really get away with doing no deep stops. If you had a helium rich mix, it would depend more on how fast your acsent from 50 to 20 actually was. But most older tables, didn't have the deep stops in. So I guess in about 80 percent of incidents like that, you would get away without even a hint of sub clinical DCS.

To make a decision at depth about it though, would have to be made on the spot depending on the situation, therefore a good knowledge base on decompression would be requiered.

Now, if you can start stops from 21 meters with a gas like deco 50, then switch and keep there for some extra time and don't S-curve your way to the oxygen stop (if you have oxygen).

Bottom line is, you CAN miss deep stops even on a deeper dive. The worst you would get is a real slight type 1 for the bad acsent rates and missed deep stops. So if there was sure to be a cute nurse at the chamber, I would take my risks and continue my profile normally (for a 50m dive for sure)

jluttichau · December 15th, 2006, 05:36 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by floater)

What if you pop all the way to the surface, say missing 30 minutes of deco? I assume you'd go back but how much deco would you do and where would you start relative to the original schedule?

Depends on how far away from the chamber you are, if you are within helicopter distance i would get out of the water and breathe O2, if theres a long way home and i have no symptoms, plenty of gas and I'm not too shaken, weather seems stable etc. I would go down and do all the deco on O2 from 6m and up and then head for the chamber.

Cheers
Jonas

Ahmed Adly, Marlin Inn DC · December 15th, 2006, 07:10 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by floater)

What if you pop all the way to the surface, say missing 30 minutes of deco? I assume you'd go back but how much deco would you do and where would you start relative to the original schedule?

That is one thing that scares the hell out of a lot of people. Although I now securly botl my bloody lead to my doubles and all.
Scary, scary scenario.

I would personally go back down, I think. But it never happened to me, so I couldn't rightly tell.
Generally, it takes about 5 minutes for the symtptoms to start and you are considered in a serious medical condition after about 10 minutes.

So go back down, do one and a half the stop times and check yourself best you can.

Now I don't want to sound like an expert on this kind of horror scenario in any way. I am actually trying to think with you to see what I would do.
God Forbid. Shit that thought gives me the tingles

limeyx · December 15th, 2006, 08:20 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ahmed Adly, Marlin Inn DC)

That is one thing that scares the hell out of a lot of people. Although I now securly botl my bloody lead to my doubles and all.
Scary, scary scenario.

I would personally go back down, I think. But it never happened to me, so I couldn't rightly tell.
Generally, it takes about 5 minutes for the symtptoms to start and you are considered in a serious medical condition after about 10 minutes.

So go back down, do one and a half the stop times and check yourself best you can.

Now I don't want to sound like an expert on this kind of horror scenario in any way. I am actually trying to think with you to see what I would do.
God Forbid. Shit that thought gives me the tingles

Gives me the tingles too. I too think I would go back down, but again, I might think differently if it ever happaned.

Also, if the boat has O2 rigged up deco bottle style (not just surface O2) you could have them send that down for the 20 foot stop.

Ahmed Adly, Marlin Inn DC · December 15th, 2006, 08:27 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by limeyx)

Gives me the tingles too. I too think I would go back down, but again, I might think differently if it ever happaned.

Also, if the boat has O2 rigged up deco bottle style (not just surface O2) you could have them send that down for the 20 foot stop.

some friends of mine have been to 9m on O2 severl times for IWR. Seems to work. Lets give it a go

limeyx · December 15th, 2006, 11:26 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ahmed Adly, Marlin Inn DC)

some friends of mine have been to 9m on O2 severl times for IWR. Seems to work. Lets give it a go

after you, mate.

Mark Chase · December 16th, 2006, 12:33 AM

I had one incident which is a tad embarising where i got caught in someone elses SMB and i ended up inverted and going feet first to the surface from 30m in about 15 seconds. I had missed 15mins of stops.

I went back down and switched to my richest mix. I couldent remember exactly what your suposed to do so I just doubled all my stops and did 30mins.

I was OK no sysmptoms and I dived again the folowing day.

Second incident The deco station was dragged to the surface after becoming entangled by a boat. We have a protacol where if the station is going to be hit by shipping the dive boat will attempt to tow the station away. So we hung on but we were all draged to the surface.

I missed 45mins of stops. We checked at the surface and sussed the problem and we ALL went back down and carried on our deco. All of the 45mins missed was at 6m so I didnt bother going silly on extending it and i think I did an extra 10mins just to be on the safe side.

None of the 8 divers were bent.

I have witnessed a fair few divers getting out of the water and back on the boat after missing deco. Some went on 02 some didnt. All of them were bent.

However in water recompresion is a TOTALY diferent thing and if had bend symptoms id get out. Missed deco protacol is for symptom free divers only.
It is still risky but if you remember what the comercial divers used to do (get out get undressed and get into the pot to do deco) that sugests you can get away with a min or two well above yore stop depth.

Try this at your own risk. If you die / get hurt don't blame me I am just passing on info maby we were just lucky.

ATB

Mark Chase

limeyx · December 16th, 2006, 06:33 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

I had one incident which is a tad embarising where i got caught in someone elses SMB and i ended up inverted and going feet first to the surface from 30m in about 15 seconds. I had missed 15mins of stops.
...
Mark Chase

My gut tells me I'd do the same.
At some point, it's going to happen if I keep going along this path, so definitely good to discuss the options (no matter how ugly they may get)

December 14th, 2006, 04:34 PM	#1 (permalink)
floater(Offline) Mostly harmless Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Currently in the US, but I'm not American Posts: 155	Missed deco stops? Just curious what people here do, especially those with GUE tech training, if you were ever to miss deco stops because of some problem? For example, say you miss the deep stops and gain control around 21m. Would you go back down and do them, or just spend more time at 21m? And why? What if you pop all the way to the surface, say missing 30 minutes of deco? I assume you'd go back but how much deco would you do and where would you start relative to the original schedule? What if you just overshoot one stop? As for me (and I'm just talking about 50m / 30 min BT dives max, give or take) I'd go back to the first missed stop, spend maybe 3-5 minutes there, and then come back up per original schedule, but extra carefully and maybe spend a few extra minutes at the shallow stops for good measure. (I forgot what the ANDI procedure was for missed stops and I sold my text book so can't look it up).

December 14th, 2006, 06:20 PM	#2 (permalink)
limeyx(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 707	Quote: (Originally Posted by floater) Just curious what people here do, especially those with GUE tech training, if you were ever to miss deco stops because of some problem? For example, say you miss the deep stops and gain control around 21m. Would you go back down and do them, or just spend more time at 21m? And why? What if you pop all the way to the surface, say missing 30 minutes of deco? I assume you'd go back but how much deco would you do and where would you start relative to the original schedule? What if you just overshoot one stop? As for me (and I'm just talking about 50m / 30 min BT dives max, give or take) I'd go back to the first missed stop, spend maybe 3-5 minutes there, and then come back up per original schedule, but extra carefully and maybe spend a few extra minutes at the shallow stops for good measure. (I forgot what the ANDI procedure was for missed stops and I sold my text book so can't look it up). I think that's a huge broad subject, and going to spark a "lively" debate :0 For a tech1 dive, if somehow I miss all my deep stops at say 100,90,80 feet but somehow magically manage to regain control at 70 feet (or say I acidentally blew through rock bottom and decided to skip the deep stops) There is no way in heck I am going back down to do them! As far as I am concerned at the T1 level of diving they are essentially "optimizing" the deco and the risk of going back down to do them is unreasonable. I might do an extra minute at 70 feet and then either not do a second dive, or do a more conservative dive on the next one. I think there are a million answers for the rest of your question. __________________ my divelog: http://www.mydivinglife.com/limeyx

December 15th, 2006, 03:11 PM	#3 (permalink)
Ahmed Adly, Marlin Inn DC(Offline) New Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: hurghada Posts: 849	With a depth like 50 meters and short bottom times like that, I suppose that you could really get away with doing no deep stops. If you had a helium rich mix, it would depend more on how fast your acsent from 50 to 20 actually was. But most older tables, didn't have the deep stops in. So I guess in about 80 percent of incidents like that, you would get away without even a hint of sub clinical DCS. To make a decision at depth about it though, would have to be made on the spot depending on the situation, therefore a good knowledge base on decompression would be requiered. Now, if you can start stops from 21 meters with a gas like deco 50, then switch and keep there for some extra time and don't S-curve your way to the oxygen stop (if you have oxygen). Bottom line is, you CAN miss deep stops even on a deeper dive. The worst you would get is a real slight type 1 for the bad acsent rates and missed deep stops. So if there was sure to be a cute nurse at the chamber, I would take my risks and continue my profile normally (for a 50m dive for sure) __________________ It has just dawned on me.... We are all just recycled stardust Ahmed Adly, www.deepvoyage.com

December 15th, 2006, 07:10 PM	#5 (permalink)
Ahmed Adly, Marlin Inn DC(Offline) New Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: hurghada Posts: 849	Quote: (Originally Posted by floater) What if you pop all the way to the surface, say missing 30 minutes of deco? I assume you'd go back but how much deco would you do and where would you start relative to the original schedule? That is one thing that scares the hell out of a lot of people. Although I now securly botl my bloody lead to my doubles and all. Scary, scary scenario. I would personally go back down, I think. But it never happened to me, so I couldn't rightly tell. Generally, it takes about 5 minutes for the symtptoms to start and you are considered in a serious medical condition after about 10 minutes. So go back down, do one and a half the stop times and check yourself best you can. Now I don't want to sound like an expert on this kind of horror scenario in any way. I am actually trying to think with you to see what I would do. God Forbid. Shit that thought gives me the tingles __________________ It has just dawned on me.... We are all just recycled stardust Ahmed Adly, www.deepvoyage.com

December 15th, 2006, 08:20 PM	#6 (permalink)
limeyx(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 707	Quote: (Originally Posted by Ahmed Adly, Marlin Inn DC) That is one thing that scares the hell out of a lot of people. Although I now securly botl my bloody lead to my doubles and all. Scary, scary scenario. I would personally go back down, I think. But it never happened to me, so I couldn't rightly tell. Generally, it takes about 5 minutes for the symtptoms to start and you are considered in a serious medical condition after about 10 minutes. So go back down, do one and a half the stop times and check yourself best you can. Now I don't want to sound like an expert on this kind of horror scenario in any way. I am actually trying to think with you to see what I would do. God Forbid. Shit that thought gives me the tingles Gives me the tingles too. I too think I would go back down, but again, I might think differently if it ever happaned. Also, if the boat has O2 rigged up deco bottle style (not just surface O2) you could have them send that down for the 20 foot stop. __________________ my divelog: http://www.mydivinglife.com/limeyx

December 15th, 2006, 05:36 PM	#4 (permalink)
jluttichau(Offline) Custom User Title Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Denmark Posts: 437	Quote: (Originally Posted by floater) What if you pop all the way to the surface, say missing 30 minutes of deco? I assume you'd go back but how much deco would you do and where would you start relative to the original schedule? Depends on how far away from the chamber you are, if you are within helicopter distance i would get out of the water and breathe O2, if theres a long way home and i have no symptoms, plenty of gas and I'm not too shaken, weather seems stable etc. I would go down and do all the deco on O2 from 6m and up and then head for the chamber. Cheers Jonas

December 15th, 2006, 08:27 PM	#7 (permalink)
Ahmed Adly, Marlin Inn DC(Offline) New Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: hurghada Posts: 849	Quote: (Originally Posted by limeyx) Gives me the tingles too. I too think I would go back down, but again, I might think differently if it ever happaned. Also, if the boat has O2 rigged up deco bottle style (not just surface O2) you could have them send that down for the 20 foot stop. some friends of mine have been to 9m on O2 severl times for IWR. Seems to work. Lets give it a go __________________ It has just dawned on me.... We are all just recycled stardust Ahmed Adly, www.deepvoyage.com

December 15th, 2006, 11:26 PM	#8 (permalink)
limeyx(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 707	Quote: (Originally Posted by Ahmed Adly, Marlin Inn DC) some friends of mine have been to 9m on O2 severl times for IWR. Seems to work. Lets give it a go after you, mate. __________________ my divelog: http://www.mydivinglife.com/limeyx

December 16th, 2006, 12:33 AM	#9 (permalink)
Mark Chase(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Kent England Posts: 905	I had one incident which is a tad embarising where i got caught in someone elses SMB and i ended up inverted and going feet first to the surface from 30m in about 15 seconds. I had missed 15mins of stops. I went back down and switched to my richest mix. I couldent remember exactly what your suposed to do so I just doubled all my stops and did 30mins. I was OK no sysmptoms and I dived again the folowing day. Second incident The deco station was dragged to the surface after becoming entangled by a boat. We have a protacol where if the station is going to be hit by shipping the dive boat will attempt to tow the station away. So we hung on but we were all draged to the surface. I missed 45mins of stops. We checked at the surface and sussed the problem and we ALL went back down and carried on our deco. All of the 45mins missed was at 6m so I didnt bother going silly on extending it and i think I did an extra 10mins just to be on the safe side. None of the 8 divers were bent. I have witnessed a fair few divers getting out of the water and back on the boat after missing deco. Some went on 02 some didnt. All of them were bent. However in water recompresion is a TOTALY diferent thing and if had bend symptoms id get out. Missed deco protacol is for symptom free divers only. It is still risky but if you remember what the comercial divers used to do (get out get undressed and get into the pot to do deco) that sugests you can get away with a min or two well above yore stop depth. Try this at your own risk. If you die / get hurt don't blame me I am just passing on info maby we were just lucky. ATB Mark Chase __________________ The only DIR Inspiration diver in the village

December 16th, 2006, 06:33 AM	#10 (permalink)
limeyx(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 707	Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase) I had one incident which is a tad embarising where i got caught in someone elses SMB and i ended up inverted and going feet first to the surface from 30m in about 15 seconds. I had missed 15mins of stops. ... Mark Chase My gut tells me I'd do the same. At some point, it's going to happen if I keep going along this path, so definitely good to discuss the options (no matter how ugly they may get) __________________ my divelog: http://www.mydivinglife.com/limeyx