Helium question?

floater · April 23rd, 2006, 08:40 PM

So far I've been told that helium rocks in every sesnse except for price and availability. Recently though I read an article about the death of David Shaw, and how his buddy suffered an injury because a "small bubble of helium had formed in his left inner ear." link, see p.7

I'm wondering whether these types of injuries are specific to or more likely with helium and whether there are any other dangers associated with it? Also, how do you avoid them?

*Hassan Adly* · April 23rd, 2006, 10:51 PM

Hello,

I wouldn't come to any conclusions based on that dive. David Shaw lost conciousness and died at a depth of around 280 meters, while his buddy descended to over 250 meters if I'm not mistaken.

Decompression is pretty much hit and miss at those kind of depths, so pinpointing reasons behind specific injuries is difficult. Furthermore, it is for all intents and purposes impossible to descend to those depths without helium.

Mozi · April 24th, 2006, 07:57 AM

In addition to what Hassan said, the effects of such extreme depths on the body chemically are unknown regardless of what gas you use. I am sure that there are hyperbaric effects that no one knows about.

Mozi

Sterny · April 24th, 2006, 04:06 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mozi)

I am sure that there are hyperbaric effects that no one knows about.

That seems plausible... and I'd be interested to learn more about this... Can anyone suggest where to read more about any hyperbaric reserarch facilities in which test subjects could be taken on 'dry dives' to this sort of extreme pressure? What sort of equivalent depths or pressures are currently being explored by researchers into deep diving physiology? Is this an interest of anyone on here?

voodooconstant · April 24th, 2006, 04:17 PM

I watched a show this weekend on commercial saturation divers. They lived on helium mixes for weeks (sometimes months) at a time. It was pretty wild. They stay pressurized in bells and chambers as if the were at 500fsw. When they are done, it takes them six days to come back to 1 ATA. Wonder how they figured out that deco. There must be some research on this...

floater · April 24th, 2006, 04:18 PM

So helium is not known to cause any bubble or other problems beyond other gases in shallower depths, say within 60m or 100m deep dives?

mstroeck · April 24th, 2006, 05:01 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by voodooconstant)

I watched a show this weekend on commercial saturation divers. They lived on helium mixes for weeks (sometimes months) at a time. It was pretty wild. They stay pressurized in bells and chambers as if the were at 500fsw. When they are done, it takes them six days to come back to 1 ATA. Wonder how they figured out that deco. There must be some research on this...

Still, that's nowhere near the depths some OC divers have gone (1000+ feet). Does anybody know wether active research is being done about these depths?

Devon Rob · April 24th, 2006, 10:18 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by mstroeck)

Does anybody know wether active research is being done?

My mate was a Saturation diver in the North Sea in the early 90´s. He´d kill me for mentioning any of this but since he HATES diving he´s hardly likely to read anything on this board (with friends like me....

)

These guys were breathing He for weeks at a time. More is known about the long term medical effects of weightlessness than long term inert gas exposure. The Oil Co.`s have been monitoring them Medically for over a decade now and he still has twice yearly complete physicals at their expense. My personal experience with him (and it´s important that Dave remains nameless

) was seeing him suddenly out of nowhere start profusely sweating and shaking with what I can only assume was some sort of HPNS hit...? He was two days out of the water at the time! They were locked in the chamber for up to a Month. Several days compressing, usually 5 days working and up to a fortnight decompressing. I would tell you the depths he says they were working at but I would only be accused of BS! It takes a beer or 2 to get him talking sometimes but he has stories to freeze any divers blood.

I don´t want to scare anyone off Helium here. It really is our friend and this has nothing to do with SCUBA diving.

mstroeck · April 24th, 2006, 10:36 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Devon Rob)

I would tell you the depths he says they were working at but I would only be accused of BS!

I solemnly swear never to accuse you of bullshit.

Now tell us some stories!

Marcin Kaluza · April 25th, 2006, 12:33 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by floater)

So far I've been told that helium rocks in every sesnse except for price and availability. Recently though I read an article about the death of David Shaw, and how his buddy suffered an injury because a "small bubble of helium had formed in his left inner ear." link, see p.7

The fact that somoeone got his inner ear bent on a dive, does not necessarily mean that helium is bad, it simply means that the profile was too aggressive.
There is a biophysical model developed by S. Mitchel which explains ICD induced IEDCS (you can find it on the jap website, although GI3 says that ICD does not exist so I'm not sure if I should mention this

.

Best Regards

April 23rd, 2006, 08:40 PM	#1 (permalink)
floater(Offline) Mostly harmless Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Currently in the US, but I'm not American Posts: 155	Helium question? So far I've been told that helium rocks in every sesnse except for price and availability. Recently though I read an article about the death of David Shaw, and how his buddy suffered an injury because a "small bubble of helium had formed in his left inner ear." link, see p.7 I'm wondering whether these types of injuries are specific to or more likely with helium and whether there are any other dangers associated with it? Also, how do you avoid them?

April 23rd, 2006, 10:51 PM	#2 (permalink)
Hassan Adly(Offline) GUE Instructor Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Red Sea Posts: 286	Hello, I wouldn't come to any conclusions based on that dive. David Shaw lost conciousness and died at a depth of around 280 meters, while his buddy descended to over 250 meters if I'm not mistaken. Decompression is pretty much hit and miss at those kind of depths, so pinpointing reasons behind specific injuries is difficult. Furthermore, it is for all intents and purposes impossible to descend to those depths without helium. __________________ Hassan Adly Red Sea Discovery "Today I will finally see the sea again, which will smell of salt, wind, sand - and the cold of winter. Finally I will not only travel on it but dive in it, again I will become water, a bird - and I will remember the feeling of gliding above the abyss" Elena Sundukova, tragically lost at sea, January 2007

April 24th, 2006, 04:06 PM	#4 (permalink)
Sterny(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: The limpid tropical lagoons of Ealing, West London Posts: 550	Quote: (Originally Posted by Mozi) I am sure that there are hyperbaric effects that no one knows about. That seems plausible... and I'd be interested to learn more about this... Can anyone suggest where to read more about any hyperbaric reserarch facilities in which test subjects could be taken on 'dry dives' to this sort of extreme pressure? What sort of equivalent depths or pressures are currently being explored by researchers into deep diving physiology? Is this an interest of anyone on here? __________________ "I thought I had a great idea today, but it never really took off. In fact, it didn't even get on the runway. I guess you could say it exploded in the hangar." - Bill Watterson, Calvin and Hobbes

April 24th, 2006, 10:18 PM	#8 (permalink)
Devon Rob(Offline) Can´t remember-member Breakout Champion! Pacman Champion! Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Lyme Bay.Devon.UK formerly Hamburg, Ger. Posts: 316	Quote: (Originally Posted by mstroeck) Does anybody know wether active research is being done? My mate was a Saturation diver in the North Sea in the early 90´s. He´d kill me for mentioning any of this but since he HATES diving he´s hardly likely to read anything on this board (with friends like me.... ) These guys were breathing He for weeks at a time. More is known about the long term medical effects of weightlessness than long term inert gas exposure. The Oil Co.`s have been monitoring them Medically for over a decade now and he still has twice yearly complete physicals at their expense. My personal experience with him (and it´s important that Dave remains nameless ) was seeing him suddenly out of nowhere start profusely sweating and shaking with what I can only assume was some sort of HPNS hit...? He was two days out of the water at the time! They were locked in the chamber for up to a Month. Several days compressing, usually 5 days working and up to a fortnight decompressing. I would tell you the depths he says they were working at but I would only be accused of BS! It takes a beer or 2 to get him talking sometimes but he has stories to freeze any divers blood. I don´t want to scare anyone off Helium here. It really is our friend and this has nothing to do with SCUBA diving. __________________ this mail was checked for viruses,worms & bad breath

April 25th, 2006, 12:33 AM	#10 (permalink)
Marcin Kaluza(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: UK, Bracknell Posts: 30	Quote: (Originally Posted by floater) So far I've been told that helium rocks in every sesnse except for price and availability. Recently though I read an article about the death of David Shaw, and how his buddy suffered an injury because a "small bubble of helium had formed in his left inner ear." link, see p.7 The fact that somoeone got his inner ear bent on a dive, does not necessarily mean that helium is bad, it simply means that the profile was too aggressive. There is a biophysical model developed by S. Mitchel which explains ICD induced IEDCS (you can find it on the jap website, although GI3 says that ICD does not exist so I'm not sure if I should mention this. Best Regards __________________ Marcin HLPlanner - free VPM-B based decompression software

April 24th, 2006, 07:57 AM	#3 (permalink)
Mozi(Offline) New Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Beirut, Lebanon Posts: 80	In addition to what Hassan said, the effects of such extreme depths on the body chemically are unknown regardless of what gas you use. I am sure that there are hyperbaric effects that no one knows about. Mozi

April 24th, 2006, 04:17 PM	#5 (permalink)
voodooconstant(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Milwaukee, WI - USA Posts: 65	I watched a show this weekend on commercial saturation divers. They lived on helium mixes for weeks (sometimes months) at a time. It was pretty wild. They stay pressurized in bells and chambers as if the were at 500fsw. When they are done, it takes them six days to come back to 1 ATA. Wonder how they figured out that deco. There must be some research on this...

April 24th, 2006, 04:18 PM	#6 (permalink)
floater(Offline) Mostly harmless Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Currently in the US, but I'm not American Posts: 155	So helium is not known to cause any bubble or other problems beyond other gases in shallower depths, say within 60m or 100m deep dives?

April 24th, 2006, 05:01 PM	#7 (permalink)
mstroeck(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 156	Quote: (Originally Posted by voodooconstant) I watched a show this weekend on commercial saturation divers. They lived on helium mixes for weeks (sometimes months) at a time. It was pretty wild. They stay pressurized in bells and chambers as if the were at 500fsw. When they are done, it takes them six days to come back to 1 ATA. Wonder how they figured out that deco. There must be some research on this... Still, that's nowhere near the depths some OC divers have gone (1000+ feet). Does anybody know wether active research is being done about these depths?

April 24th, 2006, 10:36 PM	#9 (permalink)
mstroeck(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 156	Quote: (Originally Posted by Devon Rob) I would tell you the depths he says they were working at but I would only be accused of BS! I solemnly swear never to accuse you of bullshit. Now tell us some stories!