Rescue and missed deco... what would you do?

[Clare Gledhill]

This came from a thread on another board... which has somewhat gone off topic...

OK. You are diving with a buddy as a pair in the ocean.

You have done a deco dive, lets say (so we are all on the same page) a 60 metre dive. You have completed half your deco and have just arrived at 6 metres where you have both switched to O2 - you have another 20 minutes to do. The dive has gone well, there is not much swell and you relax.

You look at your gauge, then you look back to your buddy.

Who is not there. You turn around, but he is not visible. You look down and he is about three metres below you. You flash your light. He does not respond - and continues to descend.

What do you do?

How deep will you drop to catch him? Back down to the bottom? Are you confident that you could catch and stabilise him prior to that?

Let's say you do. Will you remove the regulator from your buddies mouth when you catch him? Will your decision be affected on whether he is breathing or not...

What then? Will you attempt any stops? Or will you get out and go on O2? Or re-descend?

[Brian Allen]

This would be a different answer if this was a what should you do question, so i'm gonna shoot from the hip...

I would fin straight down, swapping regs to back gas on the way... am damn sure i'd catch them quickly. Grab them and pull up there head so I can see there face. Check reg, check eyes, check breathing in an instant, whilst pulling them back up to 6 holding the head in a normal position, putting the reg in the mouth whilst purging it on the way.

At 6... Are they breathing? Is the reg in place? If so hold the stop for them...

Not breathing? Take them to the surface and assist onto boat, if i'm last man on board i'd go striaght on O2 and let the boat get moving call the chopper etc... would take things very easy lie down and drink plenty of fluids expecting an evac to a chamber. If there are still others in the water I'd jump back in, go back down and complete my deco plus a bit more expecting a pull at any time. The helicopter isn't always available...

[p_prasse]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Gledders)

...buddy drops down...
What do you do?

Descend to catch him.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Gledders)

How deep will you drop to catch him? Back down to the bottom? Are you confident that you could catch and stabilise him prior to that?

I'd drop to the depth at which I'm able to catch him even if it's deeper than the actual max depth of the dive and even if it was deeper than the MOD of the gas.
I mean normally it should be possible to catch him way before that, especially when diving with scooters.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Gledders)

Let's say you do. Will you remove the regulator from your buddies mouth when you catch him? Will your decision be affected on whether he is breathing or not...

I can see no reason to remove the O2 reg from my buddys mouth and replace it with his backgas reg. When he's not breathing, he will not breathe when he has the backgas reg in his mouth either.
When he's beathing I would strongly signal him to swap his regs. If he doesn't react I'd even go as far and pull very slightly on his reg along with the signal to change. If he still does not react then tough luck and you'll have to be prepared to have a convulsing and then unconscious diver.
If you try to remove his reg when he's breathing but your buddy is not aware enough to change regs even if you strongly signalled him to change then he will very likely not be aware enough to hold his breath while you change his regulators. The obvious result would be a completely panicked diver which is the last you need in that kind of situation.

Sure, all this has to happen very fast!

Quote: (Originally Posted by Gledders)

What then? Will you attempt any stops? Or will you get out and go on O2? Or re-descend?

Let's say he changed regs after my signal and he seems okay, aware and conscious enough to do it, I'd stay down there for 2 minutes and then ascend again with a schedule like the one I would have used if I had done a bounce dive to 60m.

If he is unconscious or did not change regs (which is the same as it is very likely that he'll loose counsciousness after convulsing on O2 @ 7.0bar) I'd go straight to the surface without any stops.


After he's on the boat you can still go down to finish deco. How much deco and at what depths would depend on the actual depth I managed to catch him at and how strongly I needed to violate the 9m/min ascend rate.
I guess 80% of the catch-depth should be enough. Stay there for 2-5min to force any of the arterial bubbles (which you may get or not from going down again, depending on the aggressiveness of the initial deco) back into solution. Then normal "bounce-schedule" (deepstops; 21m/6; 12m/2) to 6m and finish deco.

I guess the deco part really depends on how aggressive your initial deco was. If you tried to do a 35-40min deco for a 60m/30min BT dive there will certainly be enough bubbles to compress when descending, go thru the lung filter and say "hello" again on the arterial side when ascending...

[peter_steinhoff]

Why even have a buddy if you can't help him or he can't help you?

Descend while switching to your backup reg, grab him and bring him up to 6m. If he doesn't breath, go straight to the surface and hand him over to the boat. If you have the option go back down yourself within a couple of minutes and complete your deco, preferably with another diver. If you can't, expect to go to the chamber.

This is how a DIR buddy should respond. You need to be willing to do what it takes.

Best,
Peter

[David Martin]

There doesn't seem much of a decision to me - go get him.

I'd follow all the way back to the bottom if I could still see him, and in some circumstances if I'd lost sight en-route - since if you don't you're certain he's dead.

There are times that it'd be foolish to go after him; such as if the 60m dive was on a wall and he was heading past way past your MOD with no signs of stopping, or if you're already dealing with another emergency.

To paraphrase one of the instructors (not sure which) from when we discussed deepish rescues on the ITC: if you're not prepared to rescue your team-mate on an ocean dive you shouldn't be doing the dive unless you have support divers to complete the rescue for you. Clearly, this is going to put you in harms way all part of why selection of team members for "bigger" dives is so important.

David

[fraser]

Quote:

if you're not prepared to rescue your team-mate on an ocean dive you shouldn't be doing the dive unless you have support divers to complete the rescue for you. Clearly, this is going to put you in harms way all part of why selection of team members for "bigger" dives is so important

Nicely summarises my view.

Fraser.

[Clare Gledhill]

Bloody hell - when will I learn - on the other forum it goes in to a 'does the skipper have the right to prevent you going back in the water to deco' on here it turns in to 'why would you suggest that you would not rescue someone'

Ah... the power of the internet (or should that be my clumsy way of explaining myself)

A little less chest beating - I don't think anyone suggested that we shouldn;t help.

From the original post....

Quote:

Let's say you do (catch him before the bottom - pick your depth). Will you remove the regulator from your buddies mouth when you catch him? Will your decision be affected on whether he is breathing or not...

What then? Will you attempt any stops? Or will you get out and go on O2? Or re-descend?

The reason I ask is we have been taught to remove the reg from a toxing diver... yet as p_prasse says...

Quote:

I can see no reason to remove the O2 reg from my buddys mouth and replace it with his backgas reg. When he's not breathing, he will not breathe when he has the backgas reg in his mouth either.

If your buddy has toxed at 6, but you can get him back to 6 quickly is there any need to remove the reg - and thus risk forcing water down his throat? Surely getting him up is the priority - to whatever help there may be on the surface.

Then what? ... several have mentioned returning to the water to deco - presuming that there are others to take care of your buddy on the boat.

When thinking on this, I realised that I am not too clear what I would do for missed deco...

again p_prassr provides one answer...

Quote:

I guess 80% of the catch-depth should be enough. Stay there for 2-5min to force any of the arterial bubbles (which you may get or not from going down again, depending on the aggressiveness of the initial deco) back into solution. Then normal "bounce-schedule" (deepstops; 21m/6; 12m/2) to 6m and finish deco

Is this roughly what you would do?

[Meng_Tze]

Get your buddy, if you can; do deco. (either on the way up, or if needed go badck in)

If not: its better to bend than die.......... get off the water into a chamber

[GoDiva]

I wonder if taking the reg out of a toxing divers mouth would be so simple. I should imagine that the epilleptic fit would cause the victim to bight down hard, preventing you from removing it.

[Gareth Burrows]

At the stage when he/she is fitting, taking the reg out wouldnt make a difference anyway, as the throat is locked shut with a muscle spasm. That's why it's not a good idea to raise a convulsing diver, as there is nowhere for the air in their lungs to go.