Using Flow

Rick · November 27th, 2005, 03:37 PM

Guys,

Having done my course out in France where I experienced very little flow if any, can you elaborate on the skills you learnt in Florida to counter/utilise this environment?

I understand that reading the cave and experience in flow comes with practice but what were you taught by GUE?

TIA

Rick · November 27th, 2005, 07:30 PM

Ah, so it's just down to practice and time in a particular cave?

***ericfine50*** · November 27th, 2005, 09:17 PM

Yes - You need to learn the cave. When I did my Cave class in Fl, I got slammed with the flow at first. After my first cave trip back, I was learning where the eddys were, now to swim high out of the flow.

***Bob Cooper*** · November 27th, 2005, 10:21 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Rick)

Guys,

Having done my course out in France where I experienced very little flow if any, can you elaborate on the skills you learnt in Florida to counter/utilise this environment?

Yes, avoid it!

That means reading the cave and finding the part of the cave where the flow is reduced. You just can't make headway in a cave like Ginnie if you are fully exposed to the flow. This might mean switching between the left and right side of the cave, staying high, and pulling and gliding. Using the arms to pull uses less energy than swimming and is more efficient. The legs use big muscles and using fins is not an effective way to move throught the water.

You can use this technique in UK wreck diving when you have flow to deal with.

One thing that sticks out in my mind when diving in flow is to always face the flow when you have a job to do like installing a gap spool. Doing this with the flow coming from behind is very difficult, even if you are proficient at backwards finning. Again, uses too much energy!

Bob

jluttichau · November 27th, 2005, 10:35 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Rick)

Having done my course out in France where I experienced very little flow if any, can you elaborate on the skills you learnt in Florida to counter/utilise this environment?

I understand that reading the cave and experience in flow comes with practice but what were you taught by GUE?

I actually did my cave training in florida but at a time where there was no flow at all. David told us that a part of it is to spot where there is the least flow in the cave, and that is often where the most sand etc. will be deposited.

Cheers
Jonas

*Rich Walker* · November 29th, 2005, 03:55 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by jluttichau)

I actually did my cave training in florida but at a time where there was no flow at all. David told us that a part of it is to spot where there is the least flow in the cave, and that is often where the most sand etc. will be deposited.

Cheers
Jonas

Jonas! How are you? Fancy meeting you here

The shape of the cave will often dictate where the flow is lowest, along with the stuff thats on the bottom, as Jonas has said. High flow areas send to get scrubbed clear, while the lower flow regions have stuff dropped in them.

Rich

JimC · November 29th, 2005, 06:12 PM

If you learn to read the cave and get on the right line, you'll find you can make some incredible distances in high flow caves. Ridding eddies in you can get a LONG way very fast. There are guys that do 2500-3000 feet in Ginnie on back gas. In my first dive there I blew my 1/6th getting to the keyhole, now after using the cave and flow better I can easily get to maple leaf on the same gas.

Rick · November 29th, 2005, 06:43 PM

Thanks guys :D

lizardland · November 30th, 2005, 12:29 AM

A high flow cave is essentially a river with a roof on it. Look at a river and ask yourself where you would want to be if you wanted to make progress up it. Caves are exactly the same. The place you really do not want to be is right in the middle of it. Just try and think logically when faced with the situation. I've been staging gas in a cave where we had to line it with climbing rope and were using Petzl ascenders to pull against the flow... not ideal!!!

***EBT*** · November 30th, 2005, 01:43 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by lizardland)

using Petzl ascenders to pull against the flow... not ideal!!!

See rick, this is what happens when you swim like a crippled sparrow

November 27th, 2005, 03:37 PM	#1 (permalink)
Rick(Offline) Jock Exley Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Falkirk/Stratford UK Posts: 730	Using Flow Guys, Having done my course out in France where I experienced very little flow if any, can you elaborate on the skills you learnt in Florida to counter/utilise this environment? I understand that reading the cave and experience in flow comes with practice but what were you taught by GUE? TIA __________________ Forget Everything And Remember http://phreaticzone.thedeepstop.com/ http://www.dublinbaydiving.com/

November 27th, 2005, 07:30 PM	#2 (permalink)
Rick(Offline) Jock Exley Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Falkirk/Stratford UK Posts: 730	Ah, so it's just down to practice and time in a particular cave? __________________ Forget Everything And Remember http://phreaticzone.thedeepstop.com/ http://www.dublinbaydiving.com/

November 29th, 2005, 06:43 PM	#8 (permalink)
Rick(Offline) Jock Exley Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Falkirk/Stratford UK Posts: 730	Thanks guys :D __________________ Forget Everything And Remember http://phreaticzone.thedeepstop.com/ http://www.dublinbaydiving.com/

November 27th, 2005, 09:17 PM	#3 (permalink)
*ericfine50*(Offline) Moderator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: MA Posts: 622	Yes - You need to learn the cave. When I did my Cave class in Fl, I got slammed with the flow at first. After my first cave trip back, I was learning where the eddys were, now to swim high out of the flow.

November 27th, 2005, 10:21 PM	#4 (permalink)
*Bob Cooper*(Offline) Moderator - "Don't stop me now!" Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: South East London, UK Posts: 680	Quote: (Originally Posted by Rick) Guys, Having done my course out in France where I experienced very little flow if any, can you elaborate on the skills you learnt in Florida to counter/utilise this environment? Yes, avoid it! That means reading the cave and finding the part of the cave where the flow is reduced. You just can't make headway in a cave like Ginnie if you are fully exposed to the flow. This might mean switching between the left and right side of the cave, staying high, and pulling and gliding. Using the arms to pull uses less energy than swimming and is more efficient. The legs use big muscles and using fins is not an effective way to move throught the water. You can use this technique in UK wreck diving when you have flow to deal with. One thing that sticks out in my mind when diving in flow is to always face the flow when you have a job to do like installing a gap spool. Doing this with the flow coming from behind is very difficult, even if you are proficient at backwards finning. Again, uses too much energy! Bob

November 27th, 2005, 10:35 PM	#5 (permalink)
jluttichau (Online) Custom User Title Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Denmark Posts: 437	Quote: (Originally Posted by Rick) Having done my course out in France where I experienced very little flow if any, can you elaborate on the skills you learnt in Florida to counter/utilise this environment? I understand that reading the cave and experience in flow comes with practice but what were you taught by GUE? I actually did my cave training in florida but at a time where there was no flow at all. David told us that a part of it is to spot where there is the least flow in the cave, and that is often where the most sand etc. will be deposited. Cheers Jonas

November 29th, 2005, 03:55 PM	#6 (permalink)
Rich Walker (Online) GUE Instructor Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sheffield Posts: 300	Quote: (Originally Posted by jluttichau) I actually did my cave training in florida but at a time where there was no flow at all. David told us that a part of it is to spot where there is the least flow in the cave, and that is often where the most sand etc. will be deposited. Cheers Jonas Jonas! How are you? Fancy meeting you here The shape of the cave will often dictate where the flow is lowest, along with the stuff thats on the bottom, as Jonas has said. High flow areas send to get scrubbed clear, while the lower flow regions have stuff dropped in them. Rich

November 29th, 2005, 06:12 PM	#7 (permalink)
JimC(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Ottawa Posts: 18	If you learn to read the cave and get on the right line, you'll find you can make some incredible distances in high flow caves. Ridding eddies in you can get a LONG way very fast. There are guys that do 2500-3000 feet in Ginnie on back gas. In my first dive there I blew my 1/6th getting to the keyhole, now after using the cave and flow better I can easily get to maple leaf on the same gas.

November 30th, 2005, 12:29 AM	#9 (permalink)
lizardland (Online) LCS Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Evidently Chickentown Posts: 593	A high flow cave is essentially a river with a roof on it. Look at a river and ask yourself where you would want to be if you wanted to make progress up it. Caves are exactly the same. The place you really do not want to be is right in the middle of it. Just try and think logically when faced with the situation. I've been staging gas in a cave where we had to line it with climbing rope and were using Petzl ascenders to pull against the flow... not ideal!!!

November 30th, 2005, 01:43 AM	#10 (permalink)
*EBT*(Offline) Just another crouton... Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Brighton Posts: 413	Quote: (Originally Posted by lizardland) using Petzl ascenders to pull against the flow... not ideal!!! See rick, this is what happens when you swim like a crippled sparrow