Clare Gledhill(Offline)

I'm reproducing this from Quest list (as posted by John) as I know there are quite a few of you on here who dive in France and willbe interested but do not subscribe to Quest.

Quote: (Originally Posted by JGrogan)

A few of us are currently cave diving in France and have had some very interesting experiences that I thought I’d share with the wider group.

Access to caves continues to remain a major concern for many cave divers. In many cases, the resurgence pool or river access to caves is public property, but the land access to the water is privately owned. As such, cave divers depend on the continuing goodwill of land-owners to ensure continued access to popular sites.

This morning we went to Landenouse and spoke with the farmers’ wife. She was very upset with divers continuing to block the roadway down to their fields while diving. She commented that only yesterday, their access was blocked for most of the day and frankly, they have reached the end of their patience. They are currently planning on blocking off access to vehicles, which will mean that access to the cave will be almost impossible – the nearest parking spot is almost half a mile away and they may remove the path that goes to the cave entrance.

Unfortunately, this seems to be the result of the actions of a small group of divers who do not show consideration to the locals. As the farmer was talking about getting the police involved, we went and spoke with the local police; they do not have a problem with divers there, they just ask us to show due consideration to the local farmer.

We asked the farmer if it was ok to park there while unloading equipment and promised to move the vehicle when done. She was very happy with that and was pleased that permission was sought. So, if you plan on diving at Landenouse, please speak with the local farmer (the house is just next door) and seek permission beforehand. Only park there to load/unload your vehicle and then move it elsewhere.

Please remember that the land over which you are walking to access the water is owned by someone, please show due consideration and do not block their access. If there are already a number of people at your chosen dive site, please find another one rather than block it!

In addition to Landenouse, access to St Georges is becoming difficult. The land and house next to the water have recently changed hands and the current owners are planning on closing off access.

In short, please remember that we are guests to the area; please remember to show due consideration to the local farmers and other land-owners. Good relations take a considerable length of time and effort to develop, but it only requires the actions of a few inconsiderate divers to undo all that hard work.

Best,
John.

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caverkevin (Online)

Thanks for posting this. This is something I think about all the time while cave diving in France.

One of the huge problem I see is garbage and litter. I know I usually am packing out more trash than I produce while diving at a site.

If I was a land owner, I would be very unhappy about how some of these places look. There is a little wall on your right at Ressel. Behind that wall there is toilet paper and other stuff from people doing their business. The park in BSA where Goul de Pont & Tannerie are located, first time I was there I was picking up empty water bottles and beer boxs.

Not that 100% of the problem is from cavers. I think all cavers, both DIR and non DIR, most pay more attention while at these sites. So the owners do not view us, the divers as the problem.

One of the few thing I have been thinking about since the cave congress a few weeks ago is a clean up day or action. Try and get some of the dirty sites cleaned up. So they will be easier to keep clean in the future. Also a program for next years congess on access issues and garbage.

This sport of cave diving is growing. It would be a huge shame to see the sites closed. Thanks again for sharing.

Cheers!!

Kevin

tanto(Offline)

In 1995 the Gorgazzo cave was permanently closed, they said for safety, but we know that these was a lot of pressure from local residents because the divers were leaving their cars in the wrong places, getting naked before or after the dive (many were still diving with wetsuits), being noisy and so on.
Had all divers be good, I bet the cave would still be open.
Too bad because the cave was very nice, dropping to 400+ft/120m quickly, always clear, mostly with 100ft/30m+ viz.
Similarily, the recently re-opened Elefante Bianco cave (explored by Casati to 180m/600ft depth), can be accessed through private property, you have to walk in a private courtyard and then cross their vineyard, I'd say most divers behave properly, you rarely see anything left behind, but still even if the property owners haven't complained so far, proper etiquette is certainly an issue.
So yes, this is a general problem and it's good for all of us to be aware and think about it.

Dan T(Offline)

good article.

Awareness is a good start. grats-Clare

lizardland(Offline)

I had negotiations with the owners of the house adjacent to St Georges in April and their concern was over liability. They agreed to allow UK divers access provided they were CDG members and suitably insured AND they got in touch in writing beforehand.

It is not as simple as signing a waiver, in France land rights are quite complex and land owners are liable for footing the bill for rescues on their property. The cost of a cave rescue -- or a body recovery -- is many thousands of euros. Many springs are also used as water sources and an accident can contaminate the groundwater for a very long time. Take a look at any karst area of France, there are no lakes. Groundwater preservation is very important.

I've been cave diving in France for over ten years and I know quite a lot of land owners. A lot of them have said the same thing, they simply don't like being kept out the loop, they just want to know what is going on. They don't like, quite rightly, being ignored. Many of them are genuinely curious and we've even done video for farmers to show what is under their land and a bottle of wine or two costs very little and keeps everyone happy.

We all need to remember that someone owns pretty much everything, access is a privilige and not a right. Even in "public" areas like the Source du Lison, a site should be respected.

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Dan T(Offline)

Good post-

very respectfull, toward the owners and the water. As for the recovery if such event did happen do they not lean toward the divers that are familiar with the system?


Im outsider across the pond, just curious.

Thanks

lizardland(Offline)

In France as I understand the situation, the Fire Brigade have primary responsibility for co-ordinating a rescue -- OK let's be realisitic, a body recovery if we're talking about spring diving. In the Lot, they train in cave diving and dive the systems but unless it was a fairly easy dive then I doubt they would do it themselves. They would generally call in Speleo Secours Francaise divers, usually there are divers who live in the area. Most of the members that I have known are highly experienced cavers & cave divers who know the systems very well. SSF have been involved in a number of high profile rescues/recoveries in the last few years.

__________________
Can you imagine drifting along in the sea with your mouth open and a load of f***ing plankton going in? You'd like it, would you?

www.westons-cider.co.uk

The Lot isn't the only place to dive: http://www.lulu.com/content/613554

Dan T(Offline)

Oh


thats just as the same as the Org.(nacd,nsscds) here in the states. Do they keep up with the relations to the landowners for the diving community. Maybe in such a way that only members are allowed to dive? Im not trying to put up a fence for other divers, but maybe it would hold better standards for the relations.

I would like to go there, may not be with gue per say. But defently a good vacation. in the future


Thanks for the information-

lizardland(Offline)

Speleo Secours is purely a cave rescue organisation, it isn't like the NACD or NSS-CDS. In France there are the FFS and FFESSM which both represent cave divers and the various federations do a certain amount of negotiation over site access, etc., as well as the CDS though it tends to be more biased towards dry caving. In the event of a rescue/recovery the fire service would call Speleo Secours who would then call FFS/FFESSM/CDS members who were registered with them for cave diving rescues.

It is a similar set up here in the UK. The emergency services would alert the appropriate regional CRO group (Cave Rescue Organisation) who would then alert CDG (Cave Diving Group -- the UK's cave diving representative body) divers who were on the call out list for that region.

__________________
Can you imagine drifting along in the sea with your mouth open and a load of f***ing plankton going in? You'd like it, would you?

www.westons-cider.co.uk

The Lot isn't the only place to dive: http://www.lulu.com/content/613554

Clare Gledhill(Offline)

Update

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Interested in DIR dive training? Always happy to chat/answer questions so get in touch via PM or visit www.dirdiver.co.uk