Cave diving in Turkey

Mark Chase · March 13th, 2006, 10:27 PM

Hi all,

I went to see DIVERSE06 on Sunday and Martin Farr was talking about cave diving and mentioned Turkey. He said the sites were near Antalya which was interesting as i have just bought a place nr Side 20mins down the road :D

I know there is a lot of dry caves there so does any one know about any wet ones.

Mr Farr wasn't too forthcoming with the locations :D but the picks looked fantastic.

So is there anyone out there with a detailed knowledge of Turkey??

It might be interesting to put a trip together.

ATB

Mark Chase

Rob Dobson · March 14th, 2006, 08:27 AM

This is the first I've heard of cave diving in Turkey, but I have family out there and go diving there in the summer - so I'd be interested in knowing more if you get any more info.

__vader · March 14th, 2006, 08:40 AM

Hi,
Well a simpel search on google says it all, have a look a this:

http://research.gg.uwyo.edu/kincaid/karstdiv.htm

The WKPP guys have been there

Best

Ilhan

lizardland · March 14th, 2006, 10:55 AM

Jarrod Jablonski dived sites in Anatolya about 8 years ago or so. One of them was the deepest cave in Asia for a while. I spoke to both him & Martyn about diving/caving there at the time but the bureaucracy seemed prohibitive without making it a major expedition. I think the French Federation did an expedition there a couple of years ago too, I'm pretty sure I've seen a report somewhere, maybe in Le Fil.

Just out of interest Mark, do you have a cave cert?

Mark Chase · March 14th, 2006, 11:58 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by lizardland)

Just out of interest Mark, do you have a cave cert?

Give me a chance M8, I have still to sign off on DIRF :D

My place wont be finished till October 06 and I am thinking about putting diving trips together to do the OW stuff in 07. The Caving is a second string but whilst the wreck and general diving in Turkey is OK to good, the picks I saw of the caves were bloody fantastic. If I put together trips to dive there I would have someone experienced to lead the trips probably an instructor. I would just sort logistics and do any easy dives.

I have dived some easy caves and I have overhead environment training from TDI. Being based in the UK all my OHE stuff is wreck penetration not caves but there is a similarity. Subject to my regular dive buddy getting life organized were planning to do a cave course in Minorca on the CCR's this year or early 2007.

I want to do the DIR cave training as well as there are a few French trips I would like to tag along on but I am disappointed at how restrictive Cave 1 is. So I would really need to get to Cave 2 before I could do it properly and thats going to take a while.

Thanks to my OHE training with TDI I can skip the entry level cavern course and go straight to full cave but as you know that doesn't count for squat with GUE

.

ATB

Mark Chase

lizardland · March 14th, 2006, 01:53 PM

Why not just go to Florida or Mexico and do a full NACD or NSS-CDS course rather than the restrictive GUE cave course. I can heartily recommend the Orlowskis of Aquaspeleo in Live Oak. They are both RB divers so I'm sure would teach on CCR. From what I've seen of GUE cave diving it looks like a good way of making very simple dives complicated. Suppose that way they become expeditions

From memory the Menorcan caves aren't particularly extensive, I'd definitely look at going somewhere else if it's full cave your after.

The Anatolian caves do look very nice. Turkish builders... October '06... hope you've got a good site manager

Mark Chase · March 14th, 2006, 05:14 PM

[quote]

Quote: (Originally Posted by lizardland)

Why not just go to Florida or Mexico and do a full NACD or NSS-CDS course rather than the restrictive GUE cave course. I can heartily recommend the Orlowskis of Aquaspeleo in Live Oak. They are both RB divers so I'm sure would teach on CCR. From what I've seen of GUE cave diving it looks like a good way of making very simple dives complicated. Suppose that way they become expeditions

Cost..

Minorca is much cheaper to travel to. When i spend 1.5K getting out to Mexico or Florida I want to be already qualified.

I was planing on doing an IANTD course but it depends really on the instructor. However I cant agree on the comments on the DIR cave diving. Whilst I see the gas logistics of CCR for cave diving to be a big advantage my modest research has shown the problems with multi leveling and buoyancy mean CCR is not best suited to these situations.

When a dedicated CCR diver like Zac tells me there are caves where he would rather do OC, I trust his judgment. Furthermore for OC cave diving in open caves I think the DIR system makes a lot of sense and I like the way they dive.

Quote:

Turkish builders... October '06... hope you've got a good site manager

The firm is based in Reading Berkshire. However I am distrustful of predictions from all builders :D

ATB

Mark Chase

lizardland · March 14th, 2006, 06:07 PM

Mark,

I only mentioned CCR as you said you were doing the cave course in Menorca on CCR.

You get what you pay for, go to Florida and you get probably the best variety of cave to train in. Environment is as important as intructor. There is a lot you can simulate in any cave but you need to learn how to deal with real environments, e.g. junctions, jumps, gaps, navigating a complex system, etc. I'd definitely add learn cave diving OC first.

I don't know the gas logistics that are taught but when I see a DIR divers with twin 12's and stage in a cave that I've dived in a pair of sidemount 5's (and gone further) I do have to wonder if they are being interpreted correctly.

fraser · March 14th, 2006, 09:37 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Lizardland)

From what I've seen of GUE cave diving it looks like a good way of making very simple dives complicated.

Can you elaborate Stuart? Not looking to kick off, just curious.

Thanks,

Fraser.

lizardland · March 14th, 2006, 09:53 PM

Hi Fraser,

there's been a few times that I've seen DIR divers cave diving in France with what can only be described as excessive equipment for the dive that was being done. A typical example is the reliance on stage bottles while keeping backgas in reserve, I can understand this on bigger dives and on long/deep OC cave dives that's how I dived. But I've seen a few divers who do it as standard practice on dives that really do not merit it, for example very shallow dives (I've seen divers with twinsets breathing stages in Truffe in the Lot) or very short dives (similarly I've seen divers with twinsets and one, sometimes two, stages to dive to the top of the shaft in the Ressel and back).

Like I said, I don't know what GUE teaches in terms of gas management, I suspect such examples are probably just a diver's own misinterpretation/misunderstanding of what is DIR.

March 13th, 2006, 10:27 PM	#1 (permalink)
Mark Chase(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Kent England Posts: 905	Cave diving in Turkey Hi all, I went to see DIVERSE06 on Sunday and Martin Farr was talking about cave diving and mentioned Turkey. He said the sites were near Antalya which was interesting as i have just bought a place nr Side 20mins down the road :D I know there is a lot of dry caves there so does any one know about any wet ones. Mr Farr wasn't too forthcoming with the locations :D but the picks looked fantastic. So is there anyone out there with a detailed knowledge of Turkey?? It might be interesting to put a trip together. ATB Mark Chase __________________ The only DIR Inspiration diver in the village

March 14th, 2006, 10:55 AM	#4 (permalink)
lizardland (Online) LCS Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Evidently Chickentown Posts: 593	Jarrod Jablonski dived sites in Anatolya about 8 years ago or so. One of them was the deepest cave in Asia for a while. I spoke to both him & Martyn about diving/caving there at the time but the bureaucracy seemed prohibitive without making it a major expedition. I think the French Federation did an expedition there a couple of years ago too, I'm pretty sure I've seen a report somewhere, maybe in Le Fil. Just out of interest Mark, do you have a cave cert? __________________ Can you imagine drifting along in the sea with your mouth open and a load of f***ing plankton going in? You'd like it, would you? www.westons-cider.co.uk The Lot isn't the only place to dive: http://www.lulu.com/content/613554

March 14th, 2006, 11:58 AM	#5 (permalink)
Mark Chase(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Kent England Posts: 905	Quote: (Originally Posted by lizardland) Just out of interest Mark, do you have a cave cert? Give me a chance M8, I have still to sign off on DIRF :D My place wont be finished till October 06 and I am thinking about putting diving trips together to do the OW stuff in 07. The Caving is a second string but whilst the wreck and general diving in Turkey is OK to good, the picks I saw of the caves were bloody fantastic. If I put together trips to dive there I would have someone experienced to lead the trips probably an instructor. I would just sort logistics and do any easy dives. I have dived some easy caves and I have overhead environment training from TDI. Being based in the UK all my OHE stuff is wreck penetration not caves but there is a similarity. Subject to my regular dive buddy getting life organized were planning to do a cave course in Minorca on the CCR's this year or early 2007. I want to do the DIR cave training as well as there are a few French trips I would like to tag along on but I am disappointed at how restrictive Cave 1 is. So I would really need to get to Cave 2 before I could do it properly and thats going to take a while. Thanks to my OHE training with TDI I can skip the entry level cavern course and go straight to full cave but as you know that doesn't count for squat with GUE . ATB Mark Chase __________________ The only DIR Inspiration diver in the village

March 14th, 2006, 01:53 PM	#6 (permalink)
lizardland (Online) LCS Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Evidently Chickentown Posts: 593	Why not just go to Florida or Mexico and do a full NACD or NSS-CDS course rather than the restrictive GUE cave course. I can heartily recommend the Orlowskis of Aquaspeleo in Live Oak. They are both RB divers so I'm sure would teach on CCR. From what I've seen of GUE cave diving it looks like a good way of making very simple dives complicated. Suppose that way they become expeditions From memory the Menorcan caves aren't particularly extensive, I'd definitely look at going somewhere else if it's full cave your after. The Anatolian caves do look very nice. Turkish builders... October '06... hope you've got a good site manager __________________ Can you imagine drifting along in the sea with your mouth open and a load of f***ing plankton going in? You'd like it, would you? www.westons-cider.co.uk The Lot isn't the only place to dive: http://www.lulu.com/content/613554

March 14th, 2006, 05:14 PM	#7 (permalink)
Mark Chase(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Kent England Posts: 905	[quote] Quote: (Originally Posted by lizardland) Why not just go to Florida or Mexico and do a full NACD or NSS-CDS course rather than the restrictive GUE cave course. I can heartily recommend the Orlowskis of Aquaspeleo in Live Oak. They are both RB divers so I'm sure would teach on CCR. From what I've seen of GUE cave diving it looks like a good way of making very simple dives complicated. Suppose that way they become expeditions Cost.. Minorca is much cheaper to travel to. When i spend 1.5K getting out to Mexico or Florida I want to be already qualified. I was planing on doing an IANTD course but it depends really on the instructor. However I cant agree on the comments on the DIR cave diving. Whilst I see the gas logistics of CCR for cave diving to be a big advantage my modest research has shown the problems with multi leveling and buoyancy mean CCR is not best suited to these situations. When a dedicated CCR diver like Zac tells me there are caves where he would rather do OC, I trust his judgment. Furthermore for OC cave diving in open caves I think the DIR system makes a lot of sense and I like the way they dive. Quote: Turkish builders... October '06... hope you've got a good site manager The firm is based in Reading Berkshire. However I am distrustful of predictions from all builders :D ATB Mark Chase __________________ The only DIR Inspiration diver in the village

March 14th, 2006, 08:27 AM	#2 (permalink)
Rob Dobson(Offline) Chillin' with the ninjas Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Oxford Posts: 536	This is the first I've heard of cave diving in Turkey, but I have family out there and go diving there in the summer - so I'd be interested in knowing more if you get any more info.

March 14th, 2006, 08:40 AM	#3 (permalink)
__vader(Offline) New Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Denmark Posts: 87	Hi, Well a simpel search on google says it all, have a look a this: http://research.gg.uwyo.edu/kincaid/karstdiv.htm The WKPP guys have been there Best Ilhan

March 14th, 2006, 06:07 PM	#8 (permalink)
lizardland (Online) LCS Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Evidently Chickentown Posts: 593	Mark, I only mentioned CCR as you said you were doing the cave course in Menorca on CCR. You get what you pay for, go to Florida and you get probably the best variety of cave to train in. Environment is as important as intructor. There is a lot you can simulate in any cave but you need to learn how to deal with real environments, e.g. junctions, jumps, gaps, navigating a complex system, etc. I'd definitely add learn cave diving OC first. I don't know the gas logistics that are taught but when I see a DIR divers with twin 12's and stage in a cave that I've dived in a pair of sidemount 5's (and gone further) I do have to wonder if they are being interpreted correctly. __________________ Can you imagine drifting along in the sea with your mouth open and a load of f***ing plankton going in? You'd like it, would you? www.westons-cider.co.uk The Lot isn't the only place to dive: http://www.lulu.com/content/613554

March 14th, 2006, 09:37 PM	#9 (permalink)
fraser(Offline) "I'm only late on your timescale" Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Kent, UK Posts: 463	Quote: (Originally Posted by Lizardland) From what I've seen of GUE cave diving it looks like a good way of making very simple dives complicated. Can you elaborate Stuart? Not looking to kick off, just curious. Thanks, Fraser. __________________ Damn it feels good to be a gangsta

March 14th, 2006, 09:53 PM	#10 (permalink)
lizardland (Online) LCS Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Evidently Chickentown Posts: 593	Hi Fraser, there's been a few times that I've seen DIR divers cave diving in France with what can only be described as excessive equipment for the dive that was being done. A typical example is the reliance on stage bottles while keeping backgas in reserve, I can understand this on bigger dives and on long/deep OC cave dives that's how I dived. But I've seen a few divers who do it as standard practice on dives that really do not merit it, for example very shallow dives (I've seen divers with twinsets breathing stages in Truffe in the Lot) or very short dives (similarly I've seen divers with twinsets and one, sometimes two, stages to dive to the top of the shaft in the Ressel and back). Like I said, I don't know what GUE teaches in terms of gas management, I suspect such examples are probably just a diver's own misinterpretation/misunderstanding of what is DIR. __________________ Can you imagine drifting along in the sea with your mouth open and a load of f***ing plankton going in? You'd like it, would you? www.westons-cider.co.uk The Lot isn't the only place to dive: http://www.lulu.com/content/613554