DIR Explorers - View Single Post - The best of dives

**Alastair** · June 20th, 2008, 02:13 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Owen Petchey)

Hi Clare,

Many thanks for the write up, especially of an experience that was both good and, well, not so good. And respect for shutting that box.

Learning lessons from experiences like that often is a very difficult process. You identified a couple of cave specific lessons (four was too many, where to swim the scooters). You also identified some general lessons (importance of training, scooter planning).

I wonder if you, and others, think that another lesson is to not make such large jumps in complexity / duration / distance? It sounds like one of your group did their first dive in this cave with scooter and two stages. It sounds like others dived the restricted area for the first time with scooter and stage. Indeed, slower progression may have allowed the foresight that four was too many, and of where to swim the scooters.

My understanding is that it is safer, for many reasons, to progress at a slower rate than this. For example only, first dive on back gas, second dive on back gas, third dive stage + backgas, fourth dive stage + backgas, fifth dive stage + backgas + scooter, and so on. Clearly any specific rate will be dive and team specific.

I think that the most important take home from your experience is to limit rates of progression.

Interested in your thoughts,
Owen

The trouble is what is a standard dive for you? Scootering a cave with stages was actually familiar territory for all 4 of us. We may not have scootered in that particularly cave before but does that mean you shouldn't?

What level of qualification and experience means you don't have to do the "progressive penetration approach" to diving a cave? Do the swim dives that several of the team have done (me included) not count because it was the first time that one member of the team had dived in the cave?

Scooters add a huge potential in terms of the distance you can cover, but that's why they get used. It also allows you to get into a world of problems and that is why they shouldn't be used lightly.

As it happens I was in the same position as Clare exiting with zero vis and my attitude was simply oh well - zero vis exit, been here before. I've had to cope with low vis exits on a couple of dives now both on classes and for real. It's a real eye opening in terms of the amount it can slow you down but it didn't worry me at the time. I think there are some good lessons to be had from Clare's post. I didn't see progression being one of them, but then I know who I was diving with

Cheers
Al

June 20th, 2008, 02:13 PM	#10 (permalink)
Alastair (Online) DIRX Supporter Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: UK Posts: 698	Quote: (Originally Posted by Owen Petchey) Hi Clare, Many thanks for the write up, especially of an experience that was both good and, well, not so good. And respect for shutting that box. Learning lessons from experiences like that often is a very difficult process. You identified a couple of cave specific lessons (four was too many, where to swim the scooters). You also identified some general lessons (importance of training, scooter planning). I wonder if you, and others, think that another lesson is to not make such large jumps in complexity / duration / distance? It sounds like one of your group did their first dive in this cave with scooter and two stages. It sounds like others dived the restricted area for the first time with scooter and stage. Indeed, slower progression may have allowed the foresight that four was too many, and of where to swim the scooters. My understanding is that it is safer, for many reasons, to progress at a slower rate than this. For example only, first dive on back gas, second dive on back gas, third dive stage + backgas, fourth dive stage + backgas, fifth dive stage + backgas + scooter, and so on. Clearly any specific rate will be dive and team specific. I think that the most important take home from your experience is to limit rates of progression. Interested in your thoughts, Owen The trouble is what is a standard dive for you? Scootering a cave with stages was actually familiar territory for all 4 of us. We may not have scootered in that particularly cave before but does that mean you shouldn't? What level of qualification and experience means you don't have to do the "progressive penetration approach" to diving a cave? Do the swim dives that several of the team have done (me included) not count because it was the first time that one member of the team had dived in the cave? Scooters add a huge potential in terms of the distance you can cover, but that's why they get used. It also allows you to get into a world of problems and that is why they shouldn't be used lightly. As it happens I was in the same position as Clare exiting with zero vis and my attitude was simply oh well - zero vis exit, been here before. I've had to cope with low vis exits on a couple of dives now both on classes and for real. It's a real eye opening in terms of the amount it can slow you down but it didn't worry me at the time. I think there are some good lessons to be had from Clare's post. I didn't see progression being one of them, but then I know who I was diving with Cheers Al __________________ Helium is our friend - GI3 Last edited by webmaster; June 23rd, 2008 at 10:28 AM.