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Kevrumbo · April 26th, 2008, 09:20 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by base615)

Quite frankly I think there's way too much glorification of war these days. If we were that worried about not forgetting peoples "sacrifice" we would be trying to avoid war at all costs rather than rushing headlong into it. Where's the day of rememberence for all the Iraqi civilians killed over the last few years?

The people who faught and died at Galipoli or the Somme weren't heroes, they were people who would face a firing squad if they didn't go over the top. People should be saying what a tragedy and a waste it is to rather than going on about fallen heroes.

Same goes for the Kokoda Track. I guarantee a fair few of those volunteers wished they hadn't volunteered once they realised what they had got themselves into but if you were stuck out in the arse end of nowhere with no support expecting to be killed at any moment you would step up to the plate too.

I'm an ex soldier myself and have experienced the whole "let's go and do what we're trained for" feeling but looking back that was when I was 18 and now I'm damn glad that in the end Northern Ireland was the only place I ever went where it was possible to get shot at.

Craig

Craig, IMHO --it's more glorification of the esprit de corps, and the idea of the "Australian Mateship" -- ". . .a relationship in which social status and breeding fall by the wayside and looking after your mate, your true friend, is of utmost importance. And what's more, you can expect them to do the same for you. . ."

As a soldier under fire, you well know that fear can be contained or compartmentalized, but it cannot be banished. Most commanders know that their best hope is to channel fear, so that men are not paralyzed but rather motivated. It has long been recognized that men fight, not for God or country, but out of fear --fear of being killed and fear of showing fear. The military uses the buddy system knowing that men do not want to shame themselves by showing cowardice to their buddies.

Better to quote an Australian here today . . .In a speech given in London, November 2003, Prime Minister John Howard said:

Quote:

The two world wars exacted a terrible price from us - the full magnitude of that lost potential, of those unlived lives can never be measured. And yet, some of the most admirable aspects of Australia's national character were, if not conceived, then more fully ingrained within us by the searing experiences of those conflicts.

None more so than the concept of mateship - regarded as a particularly Australian virtue - a concept that encompasses unconditional acceptance, mutual and self respect, sharing whatever is available no matter how meagre, a concept based on trust and selflessness and absolute interdependence. In combat, men did live and die by its creed. 'Sticking by your mates' was sometimes the only reason for continuing on when all seemed hopeless.

That's the kinship, the camaraderie I venerate today. . .

April 26th, 2008, 09:20 AM	#7 (permalink)
Kevrumbo(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: El Segundo CA, South Santa Monica Bay, USA Posts: 133	Quote: (Originally Posted by base615) Quite frankly I think there's way too much glorification of war these days. If we were that worried about not forgetting peoples "sacrifice" we would be trying to avoid war at all costs rather than rushing headlong into it. Where's the day of rememberence for all the Iraqi civilians killed over the last few years? The people who faught and died at Galipoli or the Somme weren't heroes, they were people who would face a firing squad if they didn't go over the top. People should be saying what a tragedy and a waste it is to rather than going on about fallen heroes. Same goes for the Kokoda Track. I guarantee a fair few of those volunteers wished they hadn't volunteered once they realised what they had got themselves into but if you were stuck out in the arse end of nowhere with no support expecting to be killed at any moment you would step up to the plate too. I'm an ex soldier myself and have experienced the whole "let's go and do what we're trained for" feeling but looking back that was when I was 18 and now I'm damn glad that in the end Northern Ireland was the only place I ever went where it was possible to get shot at. Craig Craig, IMHO --it's more glorification of the esprit de corps, and the idea of the "Australian Mateship" -- ". . .a relationship in which social status and breeding fall by the wayside and looking after your mate, your true friend, is of utmost importance. And what's more, you can expect them to do the same for you. . ." As a soldier under fire, you well know that fear can be contained or compartmentalized, but it cannot be banished. Most commanders know that their best hope is to channel fear, so that men are not paralyzed but rather motivated. It has long been recognized that men fight, not for God or country, but out of fear --fear of being killed and fear of showing fear. The military uses the buddy system knowing that men do not want to shame themselves by showing cowardice to their buddies. Better to quote an Australian here today . . .In a speech given in London, November 2003, Prime Minister John Howard said: Quote: The two world wars exacted a terrible price from us - the full magnitude of that lost potential, of those unlived lives can never be measured. And yet, some of the most admirable aspects of Australia's national character were, if not conceived, then more fully ingrained within us by the searing experiences of those conflicts. None more so than the *concept of mateship* - regarded as a particularly Australian virtue - a concept that encompasses unconditional acceptance, mutual and self respect, sharing whatever is available no matter how meagre, a concept based on trust and selflessness and absolute interdependence. In combat, men did live and die by its creed. 'Sticking by your mates' was sometimes the only reason for continuing on when all seemed hopeless. That's the kinship, the camaraderie I venerate today. . . __________________ "Live never to be ashamed if anything you do or say is published [or posted] around the world --even if what is published is not true. . ."